They made it so easy to respond to their arguments, that at first I felt a little guilty, as if I had been taking candy from a baby. But that did not last long. I realized that all of these commenters were probably adults who would rather see you and I be arrested and go to jail merely for being armed with a pistol on a college campus for the purpose of preventing rapists, robbers, and murderers from harming us and others.
In their eyes, even women who have already been victimized by rapists should be denied their human right of self-defense using firearms just because they happen to be on a college campus.
How do I know this? I know it because I know that they know that victims of rape attend college, and these opponents to college carry make no exception for them to carry a firearm on campus.
What makes a college campus such a hollowed ground that carrying a pistol for self-protection is such an unholy act?
I've quoted some of the comments here and my responses to them: (one comment below dealt with a different law regarding police asking about a "permit", but was still fun to answer)
Um, Just Cuz It's Bad!
Mack68 - "My kids are also learning. But they do not need to pack heat on campus. This is a very bad idea."
Mack, I see what you slyly did there. Under HB 859, only licensed ADULTS 21 and over may carry a firearm on campus.
These are the SAME people that can legally carry now in public parks filled with parents and children, the SAME people that can have a beer, wine, or whiskey in a restaurant while carrying legally (legal since 2010 no less, with no wild west shootouts in those places), and the SAME people that can legally carry in 97% of all other public places, with no rash of licensed 21 year old KIDS shooting up places.
When you can get past the fear-mongering, maybe then you can see that it is immoral to put adults in jail merely for wanting to have a firearm for protection from evil-doers on college campuses that would rape, rob, and murder innocent UNARMED victims.
We Don't Need No Stinking 4th Amendment!
jerryeads - "Do I remember the legislature being so incredibly stupid as to pass a law preventing police from even ASKING if someone had a conceal permit? If that's the case, what's the point requiring the permit? What's next - a law preventing police from asking to see one's driver's license to see if he or she is 21?"
Ah, the old problem of not actually reading the bill rouses its ignorant head.
Jerry, nothing in that bill in any way prevents an officer from asking if a person has a license to carry. Just as nothing in the bill in any way prevents an officer from asking where you bought those snazzy shoes from.
What HB 60 (from 2014) does, is to make it crystal clear and confirm CURRENT U.S. Constitutional law that officers are ALREADY subject to.
Which is, citizens may not be detained under color of law unless Reasonable Articulable Suspicion (R.A.S) of a crime is afoot.
The U.S. Supreme Court has already ruled that merely being armed does not give rise to an exception of the 4th Amendment.
Now, with R.A.S. or probable cause of a crime, then yes, officers may at any time DEMAND to see that weapons carry license under color of law. HB 60 in no way prevents this.
Officers are free to observe, investigate, question, etc... But may not detain a citizen without circumstances which exist to overcome Constitutional Rights. And as our highest court has already ruled - being armed without other circumstances which suggest criminal activity leaves 4th Amendment protections firmly in place.
Should your wishes become reality, such that the mere act of exercising a Constitutional Right, even while licensed, subjects you to being stopped and detained by police against your will any time an officer observes you being armed, just what do you think happens to all other licensed activities you participate in?
Do you have a Constitutional Right to drive a car? Well, it does require a license. Hmmm, maybe you are driving without a license. I believe any time you drive, a police officer should be able to pull you over merely to check and see if you have a drivers license. Cuz, you know, some people out there do dangerous things with their cars, and we want to make sure at any time anyone drives, that they are licensed to drive.
It doesn't matter to you how many times I am stopped during my day by an officer to question me about my gun license, so I won't care how many times you are stopped on the road, just so an officer can check if you are licensed to drive. See how that works?
Laws That Restore Liberty Make People Commit Crime!
Denise285 - "...This bill states that only individuals that are over 21 years old will be allowed to carry on campus. Realistically, can the supporters of this bill actually believe that students 18 through 20 will stand idle and not bring weapons on campus also?..."
Denise, if HB 859 does NOT pass, do you actually believe that students 18 to 20 (or anyone of any age) bent on committing crime will choose to leave their guns at home, for fear of breaking the law?
Please explain to me how the current prohibition of firearms carry on college campuses is keeping armed robbers from bringing their guns on campus?
Perhaps it's because college campuses with all of their learning haven't figured out the best way to author an effective sign that keeps them away?
Wild, Wild West! Aaah!
MarshallK - "Of course parents will be excited that there can be old-fashioned shootouts on campus in the near future. The clear way to protect one's self is to fire back; and, of course, students, faculty, or staff with anger issues would never pull a gun on someone just because they were angry. Heck, put guns in church, airport, trains, Everywhere. What a safe world we can envision."
Well Marshall, it sounds like you may be familiar with HB 60 from 2014 which some have called, "The Guns Everywhere Bill".
Please tell me how many "old-fashioned shootouts" have occurred by licensed gun carriers committing crimes since July 1st, 2014 when this bill became law.
Also, it has been legal to drink alcohol and carry a firearm in restaurants since July 1st, 2010 in Georgia.
How many wild west shootouts have occurred as a result of licensed carriers committing any crimes in those restaurants?
You know, fear-mongerers are good at fear-mongering, but when they try to be prophets of doom, they are shown time and again that they are false prophets.
Dueling Parking Spots!
jerryeads - "...Duels in the lots over parking spots..."
Jerry, you guys are making this too easy!
Psst, did you know that since 2010 with SB 308 it has been LEGAL for licensed-to-carry college students to bring a pistol onto a college campus parking lot in his car, as long as he leaves it locked in the car?
Please tell me how many duels over parking spots have occurred by licensed carriers since 2010?
Board of Regents Just Jealous It Doesn't Address Private Colleges!
OriginalProf - "This is why our Board of Regents opposes any 'campus carry laws' so strongly. Only the USG schools would be affected."
Not quite. The Board of Regents would just as much oppose a law allowing firearms carry both at public and private colleges.
Don't believe me, look at past campus carry laws that applied to both. The B.O.R. roared at them.
How Can Police Know Who The Good Guy Is?!
patriotdog - "...Never mind the fact that when police show up to find the suspect, and they are looking for an 'armed and dangerous student' how do they know if the student(s) with the gun is the bad guy or a good guy looking for the bad guy?..."
Please tell me how responding police know the difference between good guys and bad guys when crime occurs outside college campuses?
Does stepping over a college property line suddenly make police go stupid?
No More Students or Professors At Georgia Colleges!
Ralph-25 - "Not only will thinking High School students be looking elsewhere, any sought after Professor will not even give Georgia a second thought..."
Ralph, wishful thinking got you tied in knots?
Alabama, Idaho, Utah, Colorado, Oregon, Wisconsin, Kansas, Arkansas, Mississippi, and Texas all have legal student campus carry.
Are they having a shortage of students and professors? Please explain.
They Should Protest By Calling In Sick!
sim_namore - "If this bill becomes law, every teacher in the state should call in sick."
You know, that is an EXCELLENT idea. Have the hoplophobic professors falsely call in sick. They then get fired and replaced by professors with common sense, who then help nurture common sense in their students.
I bet you didn't realize just how much your idea would improve the future of our society.
Armed 18 Year Old Kids! Aaah!
redweather - "No more absurd than thinking an 18 year old college student will have the requisite training and skill to fend off a maniac armed to the teeth."
Red, please pay attention. You have to be at least 21 in Georgia to get a license to carry a firearm.
And who do you suppose will better be able to fight back against an armed criminal - a person with a gun, or a person without a gun?
Do you suppose young adults have been unable to use their firearms successfully outside of college campuses? You seem to imply that.
I can think of a young college student in the news not many years ago who went to buy some soda at a grocery store in Georgia. He was licensed to carry, and I believe 21 years old at the time.
He was attacked by two men. One held a knife to his throat. With his pistol, he killed the knifeman, and the other ran away. Google it sometime.
In fact, the defender was 22. Details on the incident above are at the following links: